Sailing on a Budget – talk

I have been asked to give a talk followed by a Q and A question session at the Scottish boat show in October

http://www.scotlandsboatshow.co.uk/

it is being held here

the biggest marina in scotland

other blokes get to be experts on navigation, diesel engines, sailing in the mediterranean, buying a new boat

my subject

Boating on Budget

It feels as though I am spending a bloomin fortune on sailing and that my budget is well out of control

but as one MOB said in a recent email

he like my films because my boat is always the crappiest vessel in the anchorage

so I have been thinking about some money saving tips

open to all suggestions but here are a few for starters

Don't eat ashore

Drive a crap car

buy the shortest boat you can live with

make sure it is a twin keeler so that you can use cheap drying moorings or cheapish drying marinas

don't spend money on anti-foul - just run her up the beach and scrape her every now and again

when you come to buy a boat - don't take your significant other with you - this will cost you money and you will end up buying a bigger boat that you need

old sails are nearly as good as new ones

learn to sail solo

when hitching around carry a life jacket over your shoulder - easier to get lifts that way

the best way of making your saiiling days cheaper is to sail more often - so many of the costs associated with sailing are fixed costs so the more you sail those fixed costs are spred over more days

D

Any more chaps

This is about Dylan Winter's Blog.

40 Responses to “Sailing on a Budget – talk”

  1. 22 August, 2016 at 5:47 pmRay Malik says:

    It would be nice to attend and listen to you but I have volunteered to do four days of lift out duties at my local club which is almost as much fun as your lectures. Perhaps you could film the event and post it on KTL like the one you did on the south coast a while back.

  2. 22 August, 2016 at 6:50 pmApplejack Jim says:

    Instead of buying a bigger boat make a fully fitted boom tent. All wet objects stay in the cockpit improving the quality of life during inclement weather that may occasionally be found in UK waters. A tarp over the cockpit is of little use compared to a proper boom tent IMHO.

  3. 22 August, 2016 at 8:10 pmMark the Skint Sailor says:

    Avoiding the cost of the boat in the first place is a cheap way of sailing. There are free boats out there, you just have to find them. That way you can spend money improving or renovating the boat and still get your money back as long as you don’t spend more than the value of the boat. It’s pot luck what you get, but hey, it’s free!

    I got mine on Freecycle, but there are other groups like Freegle and free stuff groups on Facebook. It may take time, but the hunt is all part of the fun; doing research, browsing and joining the most likely groups, understanding the sailing seasons and how they affect boat availability and price… lots to talk about.

    Mud moorings are cheap, just make sure your insurance covers your boat on the mooring all year so you avoid the cost of hauling out in the winter (but make sure your mooring can cope with bad weather).

    Oh and the cardinal rule is NO WOODEN BOATS!

  4. 22 August, 2016 at 9:01 pmdylan winter says:

    no wooden boats is excellent

    as for obtaining a free boat….. sometimes they can cost more than one you have paid for

  5. 22 August, 2016 at 9:02 pmdylan winter says:

    Scotland is the home of the proper cockpit cover

    they make the accomodation bigger when you really need it

    when it is hosing down

  6. 22 August, 2016 at 9:11 pmjon sutton says:

    1/ Invest in a good tool kit and DIY where possible
    2/ Most diesel inboards are just adapted industrial engines, shop for spares wisely
    3/ Avoid any seller with the words ‘chandler’ ‘marine’ or ‘yacht’ in their title
    4/ Plenty of stainless and galv rigging components used in the building and architectural sectors, check the price difference

  7. 22 August, 2016 at 9:46 pmdylan winter says:

    and I can heartily recommmend the KTL toolkit – it is the very best money can buy

  8. 22 August, 2016 at 10:33 pmMark the Skint Sailor says:

    The time of year affects the price. Just before fees are renewed in Feb/March there’s a glut of desperate sellers trying to avoid fees, then you get another dip in prices just after the sailing season around September/October. Christmas is a good time as people sell to pay for pressies and no-one else has money, so you can pick up a bargain from a seller desperate for money to buy the kids that must-have toy and avoid looking like a heartless monster.

  9. 23 August, 2016 at 12:42 amPaul Rogers says:

    What a good topic! A lot of stuff can be bought from General stores rather than chandlers – galvanised steel is often suitable instead of stainless steel. You have probably read the “£200 Pound Millionaire” by Weston Martyr (did I spell that properly?) but you may no wish to go to Russia to buy tea!

  10. 23 August, 2016 at 4:13 amSusan Reese-Kelley says:

    Why no wooden boats? Only boat I have is wood. If I punch a hole in it, just epoxy a board from a shipping crate over the hole and keep on floating. :) A chainsaw makes redoing the deck plan easy. If my mast breaks I can cut down a tree with aforementioned chainsaw and nail a pulley to the top. Please don’t sell my wooden boat short. It’s the only one I have. :)

  11. 23 August, 2016 at 7:33 amdylan winter says:

    Wooden boats take up too much time for me

    now that I am in scotlaand most of the wooden boat owners keep their boats in sheds through the winter so that they can do some varnishing – good sailing days are so few and far between tht you waste sailing days varnishing. I have one wooden boat – that is the duck punt hanging from the roof beams in the shed

  12. 23 August, 2016 at 7:44 amdylan winter says:

    I have read that book – mind you £200 was a worth a lot more when the book was written

    http://www.bluemoment.com/200pm.html

    it was written in 1932 when £200 was worth £9,760

  13. 23 August, 2016 at 11:45 amjon sutton says:

    need more molegrips…………………. can’t have too many molegrips!!………………and a much bigger hammer

  14. 23 August, 2016 at 2:58 pmdylan winter says:

    mole grips for pan holders too

  15. 23 August, 2016 at 3:10 pmstevec says:

    would be interesting to consider costs of actually sailing, mooring and maintaining boat – compared to commuting to and from sailing – petrol costs high but then the MOBs can use their senior raicards ;)

  16. 23 August, 2016 at 3:22 pmdylan winter says:

    but too old to carry all the gubbins the other snag is that to get the cheapish tickets you need to book in advance

    and I have so far failed to book the weather in advance

    current mooring is free

    winter pontoon is about £30 a week

    sailing costs nothing, food I would eat anyway, maintenance – v low for me. a bit of varnish, no antifoul, engine servicing components £100 a year.

    the big costs for me are fuel, fuel, fuel and killing cars

    D

  17. 23 August, 2016 at 5:39 pmRalph says:

    Not sure I agree with “old sails are nearly as good as new ones”. The better the sails the more enjoyable the sailing. I’ve always tried to have the best sails I could afford.

  18. 23 August, 2016 at 6:00 pmhenrik scheel says:

    One good way to save money is to actually write down everything you spend on your boat. I enter all costs including diesel that are more than GBP 50 in a spreadsheet line by line. This makes you aware of the cost season to season. But it is not an exercise for the nervous mand, you will be surprised at the real cost!

  19. 23 August, 2016 at 6:11 pmApplejack Jim says:

    My pet rant on spending on boats is the number of electronic gizmos that many seem to “need” rather than are actually justifiable and better still useful.
    Probably a bit of Fred drift so I’ll wander off now…..

  20. 23 August, 2016 at 6:15 pmdylan winter says:

    I agree. A handheld VHF, a phone, a tablet for navigation/simple GPS, a set of emergency nav lights, a torch.

  21. 23 August, 2016 at 6:16 pmdylan winter says:

    nooooooo! thrice Nooooo! Someone else might see the peice of paper and use it against you. Facing all that reality would also be too much to contemplate.

  22. 24 August, 2016 at 9:52 amGraham L says:

    My tips for keeping it cheap: Minimize, or avoid altogether if possible, anything that involves electricity, especially via wiring from the ship’s batteries, anything to do with pressurized water systems, and, unless the boat is large (in which case you’re not “boating on a budget” anyway) anything that requires mechanical assistance to get it done (like windlasses for raising the anchor). Thereby you avoid the exorbitant costs of buying the kit, the frustrations and costs when it goes wrong, which it certainly will, and the sense of helplessness when you haven’t the foggiest where the problem lies and the professional can’t fit you in till next November.

    All that said, my boat breaks all my own rules. One day I will return to simplicity.

  23. 24 August, 2016 at 10:48 amdylan winter says:

    I have no anchor winch on this boat

    my wrists tell me that it is time I moved it up my list of priorities

    maybe not electric though

    D

  24. 24 August, 2016 at 11:57 amMark says:

    Wooden, plastic, metal, or concrete there is only ONE rule about what your boat should be made of. That rule is how easily and cheaply can you fix it or get it fixed if you cannot do the job yourself.

    For me that means wood. There is nothing on a wooden boat that I cannot fix. I can and have built boats and I’m refitting another one for launch next year, including building the mast and spars and sewing the sails. I can’t work with plastic, metal or concrete and so would have to get someone else to fix any problems and right there the cost rockets.

    So, for me, wood means cheaper, everything else would be more expensive.

  25. 24 August, 2016 at 12:00 pmdylan winter says:

    too much yard time for me

    and the cost on unguents really adds up

    in the north you need a covered area for winter work – or pull the boat in the summer

    no more wooden boats for me – i love sailing too much

    D

  26. 24 August, 2016 at 4:20 pmTed B. (Charging Rhino) says:

    Most small-to-medium size sailboats here in the Chesapeake/Delaware Bay/Jersey Shore area use nylon braid or 3-strand for anchor-line, with just a 10-15 feet of chain at the anchor-end to help hold the anchor-rode shank parallel to the bottom. With rope you can winch most of a long rode up using on of the mast halyard-winches or or the deck-winch to pull most of the rode up and break the anchor free. Then the only part you have to manually lift-aboard is the short-length of chain and the anchor. Since nylon is stretchy, it eliminates the need for a snubber, though chaff is an issue to watch-for. For a storm anchoring, some boats keep a 100-120 feet of heavy chain in the chain locker that can be shackled to the anchor rode for more bottom-weight. Though most here wouldn’t trust just-anchoring if it a hurricane or strong nor’easter.

    Recently I’ve become convinced of the value of an anchor bouy and a light trip-line to free an embedded or struck anchor.

  27. 24 August, 2016 at 7:50 pmMark says:

    Not a problem for me, I have a nice big workshop in to which the boat fits with still enough space to walk around her and work on her. So no paid yardage required.

    And unguents! Well there is that.

    Still each to their own, which was my point.

    You are quite obviously enjoying the heck out your boat which is as it should be and long may it continue.

  28. 24 August, 2016 at 9:09 pmkeithlewis says:

    For me Charlie Stock got it right in his book ‘Sailing Just For Fun’ subtitled ‘High Adventure on a Small Budget’. Charlie did not get bogged down with any tech gizmo’s (Mainly because there were not many about), and he certainly had some high adventures in his little boat ‘Shoal Waters (No engine) in and around the East Coast. Charlie reminded me that you really can sail just for fun and fairly cheaply.

  29. 24 August, 2016 at 10:20 pmEuan Mckenzie says:

    Second hand kit from forums and eBay can be good

    I found my cooker, my heater, and spares to rebuild my autopilot all in the for sale and wanted section of the YBW forum

  30. 24 August, 2016 at 10:21 pmEuan Mckenzie says:

    Buy last years model of things too my Gps was an end of line sale

  31. 24 August, 2016 at 11:50 pmdylan winter says:

    that is answer – a big shed

    and you are dead right

    I have never enjoyed my sailing as much as I do now

    the 1100 miles ion the polo more than sucks though

    D

  32. 25 August, 2016 at 2:50 amSpudmore says:

    Join a club…

    Best value moorings

    Likeminded people with sheds full of spares (that’s too good to throw away…) that they’re happy to see go to a good home.

    Advice, advice, tea and more advice.

    And for better or worse plenty of people giving up and looking to empty their sheds….

  33. 25 August, 2016 at 7:12 amdylan winter says:

    that is a good point – you have to join the right club – you have to join a club where the members sail small boats. Humber Yawl Club, Hundred of Hoo, some of the Essex clubs. Some of the clubs (those with Royal attached to their names) will be bigger money pits than owning a boat. Here is another tip if you want to do a lot of sailing. When they ask you to join a committee and tell them that you wold love to be a committee member tell them you would love to but are terribly uncreliable – your job means that you are often away from home. Make usre you turn up for all work party days though and alos invest mmoney over the bar.

  34. 28 August, 2016 at 2:35 pmMikeR says:

    Abandoned or project boats remain a tentative option for acquiring a cheap boat – it just depends on what’s wrong with them. Most fibreglass boats that have sat on a sheltered, upriver mooring, or spent some years as a yard queen, will have perfectly sound hulls and, if the owner tidied up before forgetting about it, a lot of the gear is still viable. The only problem you have is convincing them to put aside their pride and sell!

    It seems that the biggest problems such boats have are with the systems, which is 50% of the reasons many are left to rot – head gasket went, or something more mysterious went bang, and the owner never got it fixed (do you have a friend in a boat club who knows the whereabouts of a second hand engine looking for a home?).

    An electrical problem – the owner couldn’t face rewiring, or didn’t have a clue where to start (you don’t need all that electricity to run a VHS radio and things that take batteries, so just rip it out).

    The owner left it sitting there so long all the rigging has rusted up, the sail covers have decayed and the main is now a fungus garden and, once it started looking nasty, the owner lost interest in his shiny toy (again, networking. What’s in someone’s shed? What’s on ebay? Could you rerig with a set from another boat entirely – perhaps seek some qualified advice on that one, however. Metacentric heights and all that.).

    Abandoned boats that have been taken over by the council when the direct debit was cancelled and the owner left no forwarding address. Talk them down on the price because you are, after all, offering to take it off their hands and remove a rapidly mouldering eyesore.

    However, never never never consider a wooden project boat. Wooden boats must come with a thorough history or you’ll find yourself in the same situation as one chap I observed at my local marina, recently: he got a 20 foot plywood cruiser and barely was he in it than the keel dropped off, it filled up and sank on its mooring. Examination of the broken pieces afterwards revealed what an initial survey could not: extensive rot penetrating between hard to see places under the deckse. Everything from the waterline up was, however, solid as a rock. They had to smash it up with a JCB to get it in the skip.

    That is the lesson of wooden project boats: they’re easier to dispose of than glass or steel after you realise you’ve bought a wreck.

    It’s always nice to get something that’s ready to go, but if you’re handy an enjoy ferreting for bargain parts, and you happen across a likely candidate, there’s no reason not to consider a fixer-upper.

    But don’t take on anything that would take you more than one season to fix, a calculation based both on the work needed and your availability to do it. Multi-year projects turn into the next abandoned project boat being eyed up by the next cheap sailor.

  35. 29 August, 2016 at 7:58 amdylan winter says:

    I could not have said it better myself – any boat can beccome a money pit – wooden boats can hoover up both time and money in astonishing quantities

  36. 29 August, 2016 at 11:26 pmJJ says:

    Hi Dylan,
    See,s to me there are a number of tenants to follow.
    1) Sail somebody else’s boat. Youth has inexperience but can offer stamina and enthusiasm, and older may have experience – so both old and young can be highly prized regular reliable crew.
    2) it’s not the acquisition cost, it’s the running costs that are eye watering. So
    A) the cheapest you are running Dyaln is KTL . A boat on a trailer that you can drag back and park on your drive or whereever can be reduced in running cost to Diddley Squat whilst you go off to do something else and can come back and start incurring extra running cost again when you’ve got the time etc. and
    B) think about how much time do really have to go sailing ? How many weekends in the Summer with all the other commitments holidays and other things to do. If not many, then buddy up with some pals and charter when you need to. If it needs experience to do so, then get qualified and crew on other peoples boats to get the experience – ie back to point 1)
    3) examine your motivations and be truthful with yourself. If you actually prefer boat fettling to sailing, then buy something small enough to fit in the shed you need to keep it in
    4) As the organisational psychologist Schumaker said ‘ small is beautiful’.
    All learnt not by design, but from necessity.
    Regards,
    jJ

  37. 30 August, 2016 at 7:03 pmdylan winter says:

    I agree – and _ I love coming out of my house to see the boat there

    It reminds me that I am a sailor

  38. 1 September, 2016 at 10:22 pmRob O'Neill says:

    You can often upgrade your lights to LED by buying an LED bulb rather than the whole new fitting.
    Service your winches – if you don’t you will pay.
    Same with anodes – and don’t forget there is probably at least one inside your diesel.
    Catch fish.

  39. 7 September, 2016 at 4:40 pmRuss says:

    My costs so far
    Hurley 20 – complete but dragged from Porthmadog harbour having sank on mooring – £400, Trailer (ex plant trailer) £450 don’t skimp on the trailer they cost a fortune to put right if they have major issues. Sail refurb £200 – years left in them no need for new ones. DIY rudder tube replacement in food grade stainless – £30 ( they charged a mate 400 to do it in galvanised at a boatyard) Complete rewire and all new nav lights making switch panel from Maplins stuff (not marine shops) £80 at most. Cheap barge paint from ebay to refurb interior £40 and it’s rock hard. Scrounged teak to re make rub rails – Free. (a bit lucky there) Stainless nuts and bolts – Big assorted bag probably not 316 ‘marine’ but I’ll be dead before I notice.- £20 the lot. Origo two burner stove (brand new in a box and never lit – Newark boat jumble £80. Batteries – Bought a job lot of ten sealed ex computer back up batteries for £100 sold eight for £20 each leaving 2 batteries and £60 profit. Quarter turn seacocks for cockpit drain bought from ebay as brewing items (food grade – another word for 316 stainless) £15 the pair instead of £70 each with a marine label. GRP work – matting bought from an industrial GRP supplier, epoxy (unbranded from ebay in large cans) £50 the lot and plenty left over.The result for about £1500 (definitely no more) is a tidy, sound, seaworthy 20ft yacht on a safe solid trailer. I reckon I could flog it for about 2500 with the trailer which would reward my labour at almost 50p an hour! but thats not the point. I’ve enjoyed doing it and I have a boat I know every inch of so I trust it and can put it right if it has problems.

  40. 7 September, 2016 at 4:51 pmdylan winter says:

    perfecto Russ – and a great choice of boat. Send me some snaps and I will post them here for others to see

    – however….. how many hours fettling when you could have been sailing?

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