Sexist MOB at the IBP

As some of you may know I write a column in this otherwise most excellent magazine.

You may remember that I consulted widely around the forums seeking advice on nurturing a good sailing wife.

Today I got a great email from Josh, who edits Small craft Advisor. They have had two letters of complaint about the article.

They are very excited because to get two letters on one subject is amazing. To get two letters from female readers has really knocked the poor MOBs back.

Hi Dylan,

A couple of letters about your latest column. Maybe you want to write a short something to follow the letters in the Reader Mail?

Have fun ;-)

Best,
Josh

Joshua Colvin
Small Craft Advisor
PO Box 1343
Port Townsend, WA 98368
www.smallcraftadvisor.com
PH 800-979-1930
PH 360-379-1930

This is the first

Issue 91; Jan/Feb 2015

I’ve been thinking about Dylan Winter’s tone and attitude in his ‘cute’ article about wives of sailors. I am the wife of a sailor. I am also a sailor. But Dylan’s article never refers to women sailors. His ‘good sailing wife’ is the old fashioned cliche of a woman. As much a stereotype of attitude as he is himself. A way of being funny? Perhaps to the members of that club.

I picture a gaggle of men hanging around the docks commiserating with each other about the handicap of wives who either won’t go sailing or won’t let them go sailing, or worse yet, really do want to go sailing and share in every aspect. I remember getting the same skeptical feeling about fishermen who came to my fly- in fishing camp years ago who would complain about their wives. I’d take them out fishing and listen to them brag about how much money their wives spent shopping, as if this were a burden. They liked complaining about ‘the wife.’ It was a way of belonging to an Owner’s Club.

That was back in the early ‘70s. Surely we have grown up along with the current two generations? The near contempt of a woman’s role in sailing is old fashioned and offensive. Joking remarks about keeping her ‘comfortable’ and ‘fashionably clothed’ and ‘well bathed’ are really more appropriate for a pet. With an attitude like this, is it any wonder that ‘the wife’ would rather be anywhere other than on a boat with ‘the husband?’ Surely it is better to accomplish companionship aboard or time alone without demeaning one’s partner.

Small Craft Advisor is an appealing magazine for women sailors. From my own experience sailing small boats I’ve learned that many women prefer small boats. Small boats are easily managed by one person, can sail close to shore, can be hauled up to a beach or shore quickly and easily, don’t cost a lot of money, are easily stored at home and easily launched for a day’s sail or overnights. When I sat at a Hobie booth at one of the Newport, RI fall boat shows with my book Beachcruising and Coastal Camping, mostly women approached my booth, dragging a man along. The women said they were attracted to being able to easily get ashore and explore using a small boat. To the women it looked manageable and fun.

and this was the second

As a small boat sailor and cruiser, I really enjoy Small Craft Advisor for writing about the adventures that everyone can experience on small boats. So I was dismayed to read in your Jan/Feb issue that as a "wife" I only enjoy shopping for expensive sailing clothes and forcing my spouse to limit sailing only to the few tmes when I give my permission. This hackneyed attempt at humor insults the many women sailors, like myself, who love sailing and messing around in small boats. Surely this magazine, of all the sailing magazines around, should recognize that everyone, not just a select few with the right "equipment" can experience the joy of sailing.

---------------------------------------------------------

I have sent my reply it is this

hahahahaha

good one Josh my man

Dear avid female sailors everywhere

what can I say?

I most sincerely opologise for the deeply offensive nature of my column. It is not the first time I have had to apologise. I am sure it will not be the last.

Obviously genralisations are dangerous - gender based generalisation are extremely dangerous.

In mitigation..... I have been sailing for 50 years and over that time have never seen at first hand a yacht of any size being sailing by a solo woman.

I have heard of them and followed the exploits of our own Ellen Macarthur, Naomi James, Dee Cafiri - excellent sailors in their own right but they are famous primarily because they are women who are sailors. Strip their gender out of the equation and their exploits would hardly deserve a mention in the media.

On the other hand I have seen and spoken to thousands of blokes who sail alone. Many of them tell me that they wished their wives would sail with them.

I confess that I did once see a yacht passing me on the Deben five years ago with two women in the cockpit.

"Blimey I thought to myself, that is unusual" . Then I saw a bloke hand mugs to tea up from the galley.

There are more blokes sailing yachts than there are women - a fact I am sure you would find hard to contest.

You tube tells me that 97 per cent of the people who watch my films are men aged 50 to 70. I assume that the subscription list to this most illustrious magazine will tell more or less the same story.

I am sorry that you took my words as offensive and out of date. However, I can only write for the those who are most likely to read my words and watch my films.

The people who visit my website have named themselves as MOB's (Mostly Old Blokes) and I am as comfortable with that moniker as they are.

I would love to hear from you how to nurture a good sailing husband. It should make a most entertaining read.

[email protected],

 

I would welcome your input to this difficult matter. As Josh says,

Just want to keep the tempest securely in the teacup.

what a nice bloke he is and what a great magazine. I commend it to you

 

PS this popped into my inbox

 

Hi Dylan,

I thought I'd add my two cents worth to the debate about women in sailing - mainly, by providing some links about surveys on what keeps women out, and what has been done about overcoming those problems:

First off, the survey to find out what stopped women getting into sailing which was commissioned by my local state-based organisation, Yachting Victoria: http://www.foxsportspulse.com/get_file.cgi?id=2714747, with the support of a government body - VicHealth, because of the benefits to health of being active.

Of the issues identified in that survey, I can certainly relate to time commitments being a problem. When I was last sailing I had just begun a relationship with someone who wound up needing both hips replaced and on disability pension just after we got together (and just after we took out a joint loan), and since then there have been a swag of step-kids and now my father has Parkinsons.

The main reason I got out of sailing, however, was because of some blatant discrimination (I am a lesbian). I could have taken legal action, but I didn't have the time, energy or money to do so - see aforementioned family issues. I did talk to a few people about my experiences, however, and that has helped contribute to some codes of practice (starting at government level) about dealing with discrimination in sport generally, as well as in sailing. The Yachting Victoria document is at http://vic.yachting.org.au/get_file.cgi?id=3377463
On that, the 2nd last club I was a member of was the Royal Yachting Club of Victoria - they had Elliott 5.5s for hire, which were the closest we could get to the Elliott 6s to be use for the Gay Games in Sydney in 2002, and one of our team lived nearby. I had gone once before (about 30 years before) to a Royal club in Queensland, and was treated so snootily I swore I would have nothing to do with any club with Royal in its name, but there was no other choice. It became fairly clear at that time that the club was struggling (as a lot of clubs here are, compared to the hey days of the 70s), and they were opening their doors to a much wider circle -  there were even tradies who became members when we did :) . All still white, however.

When I have been talking to non-sailing people generally about getting involved in sailing, one of the biggest perceptions to overcome is that people have to be rich: I keep pointing out the need for crews, and have done so since I started as a skinny crew decades ago (my first skipper said my arms had the muscles of a chicken leg - I've done weight training since then, and a bit of middle age spread has given me more of a chicken wing effect, rather than a chicken leg).

The survey also mentions concerns about feeling out of place as a barrier, and about the openness of the sport to newcomers and to females, particularly in what can be perceived as a male dominated sport, as barriers. My experience has been that expectations of stereotypes is more of an issue - women were expected to be in the kitchen, rather than out sailing, when I started in the 70s. (I've refused to do any more kitchen duty than men ever since then - and I don't make cuppas in any engineering situation.)
One of the other issues limiting women's participation in a range of areas - and I am surprised this didn't come up in the survey - is lack of visibility. I've also had a fair bit to do with getting women into engineering (my day job), and the lack of clearly visible examples/role models is one of the major problems there. Lack of visible LGBT people is a barrier to addressing discrimination against LGBT people (discrimination has been shown to cause health problems, incidentally) and problems such as lack of confidence of LGBT people. Likewise, no doubt, for people of different races.

You yourself have mentioned the limited numbers of women you've seen in sailing. We seem to have more women actively involved in sailing here - 29%, according to the survey, and there have always been at least a few, throughout my sailing 'career', which has been good.

It helps enormously that there are now women in sailing who are very visible, such as the women you mentioned, or Dawn Riley (http://www.dawnriley.com/), or an Australian woman who is my sailing heroine: former female skipper of an 18 foot skiff, and navigator for the incredible Wild Oat XI and other yachts (including Volvo yachts), Adrienne Cahalan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrienne_Cahalan).

I was also impressed by the woman you showed tacking her way through anchored boats with two dinghies in tow.

Any increased visibility of women in sailing, or a reduction of the perception that women may not be welcome, will be good. On that, here are a couple more links about women in sailing:

I look forward to more women getting into sailing, so you can show more of us being active participants.
As a final note, there is a joke in some circles here that lesbians and straight men get on well because they both like beer, cricket, and the sheilas.

PS - I skippered our boat to 6th at the Gay Games, in what was effectively a world championship class fleet, and we got a bronze in the team sailing competition.

Regards

Kayleen

We may have all come on different ships, but we're in the same boat now. MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.

Human dignity is the inherently cumulative holistic combination of human rights, wellbeing and potential, and all actions or interaction which promote, realise or facilitate same. The converse also applies: whatever degrades, diminishes or robs humans of dignity, is inherently undignified.

There are risks and costs to a program of action. But they are far less than the long-range risks and costs of comfortable inaction. JOHN F. KENNEDY
We didn't inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we only borrowed it from our children ANTOINE DE SAINT-EXUPÉRY
This is about Dylan Winter's Blog, Sailing around Britain.

24 Responses to “Sexist MOB at the IBP”

  1. 19 February, 2015 at 11:56 pmWarren says:

    I’m not sure they make a barge pole long enough for me to use to stay away from this one!
    But having said that and knowing ‘ she who must…’ Will never read this……
    Clearly the delight in your face when you get your wife or family on board is obvious.
    So even if you cannot express yourself in a way to satisfy the ladies in your audience I think your sentiment is clear.
    ‘We like it when you can share this with us so how can we make it better for you?’
    Warren

  2. 20 February, 2015 at 2:55 pmRon G says:

    Oh. I thought it was Mouldy Old Blokes. Or that could just be me…..

  3. 20 February, 2015 at 3:03 pmRon G says:

    And I can second that about Joshua, and their magazine.

  4. 20 February, 2015 at 3:18 pmJ. Peter Haliburton says:

    My wife is constantly on me to sell the sailboat, and it is a challenge to get her aboard even while tied to the dock. Usually, the Wednesday night races and weekend cruises are male only affairs. So the other guys have similar problems, and we all encourage, beg, and bribe to try and get the women to join us.

    Of the hundreds of power and sailboats based at our marina, I can’t think of any with female skippers. Some women will help out with docking, and maybe hold the wheel while sails are being raised or lowered, but very few want to be in charge of the boat underway. Rather than those women who commented getting upset with you, perhaps they should have a word with all the women who are content to be just passengers, or wait ashore.

  5. 20 February, 2015 at 3:49 pmGlenn Webster says:

    Hi D, man I love these comments, make a great topic of conversation over a pint in the pub. Having instructing for a whilst I noticed that the younger females learning to sail are as keen as mustard! And were on each course increasing in numbers! So could the future be changing? Time will tell us I’m sure.
    I know when my girlfriend/partner has sailed with me I have loved it, a great asset on board, great company and a bloody good helmsman (oops helmsperson!).
    In conclusion I think these ladies comments are by far themselves “two generations” behind and are in a minority!
    Keep stirring the mud Dylan! (Tell me, am I considered a MOB in the UK, as I am in my early fifties??)
    Thanks Glenn

  6. 20 February, 2015 at 5:40 pmdylan winter says:

    aha, are you an MOB – let me ask you a question is your cup of years half full or half empty. If you have used up more than half your life then I fear you are indeed a mostly old bloke = although you may not yet be an old bloke. Does your daughter consider you to be an old bloke?

    D

  7. 20 February, 2015 at 8:00 pmPaul Mullings says:

    Wonderful stuff D more power to your pen I say. And as for SCA ,it’s a great read,its digital arrival in my mail box is eagerly awaited.

  8. 20 February, 2015 at 11:34 pm[email protected] says:

    Seems one can’t make any comment these days without being regarded as sexist/racist/religionist/disablist! Guess I’ll just hide behind being a MOB/Grumpy Old Man!

  9. 21 February, 2015 at 1:11 amPaul says:

    It is of course obvious that mostly men are drawn to sailing or boating in general. Any activity where groups of men gather there is always going to be bitching and joking about wifes and woman. We have been venting in this way for at least 100 000 years and it isn’t going to stop now! Good on the strong woman for fighting for wage equality and all that kind of thing, but sometimes some get a bit carried away. Are we to believe they don’t bitch and whinge about us at knitting class or the nail salon, and make sexist jokes and giggle to each other about the male instructors buns at their ball room dancing class… They are no different to us and in fact, its the ones that want to stand up in this way that are more likely to bitch, whinge and joke about men than anyone else. These woman would do better to lighten up and come back with something funny about men, or even submit a humorous article themselves…. Thank god all woman don’t think like that…

  10. 21 February, 2015 at 4:40 pmJohn Booth says:

    There are plenty of women sailors at our club. I haven’t really heard much of the comments about wives where I sail. Is it really still an issue? My wife likes sailing but doesn’t like all the hassle at the beginning and end. She has devised the P/S ratio, the pleasure to slog ratio. It takes me four hours to drive to and from the boat and to open it up and close it down. If we then sail for four hours, the P/S ratio is 50%. She prefers to play tennis which has a P/S ratio closer to 80%. She sails once a year, and usually has a great time. I would love it if she sailed more often, but there you have it!

  11. 21 February, 2015 at 5:50 pmDave Barker says:

    Interesting question: Am I a MOB? If so, is it because I am one of the many, mostly old, blokes contributing to Dylan’s website or is it because I’m a bloke and mostly old? Can I be “mostly old”? I suppose some parts of me do feel younger than others but sadly they are mostly cerebral. My 6hp outboard has been sitting on a trolley for over a week now because I did my back in lifting it on there. Sometimes, when watching one of Dylan’s videos of an area that I used to sail in years ago my eyes become oddly moist but that’s just a bad anagram. To keep nearer the main topic, my wife and I built a 38ft. Wharram catamaran and I couldn’t have done it without her – I’d probably still be down the pub. Anyway, I’m not that old, I still have my whole life behind me.. er…

  12. 21 February, 2015 at 6:06 pmdylan winter says:

    there were plenty at ours too – however, most were partners of sailors and had it not been for their partners passion then I doubt that many of them would be there. As I said in my reply, I am not denying the existence of all female crews or female solo yacht sailors. I have seen pictures of them on the TV or newspaper I myself have yet to see one in the flesh and never seen one out on the water. I was in the solent for two months. Nope – all blokes or blokes with women – never any women alone or women with women.

    I myself am a mostly old bloke with a passion for boats and I make films for mostly old blokes with modest incomes and an expensive passion for boats. I talk about what I observe. I have observed that there are more men sailing than women.. I have also noticed that blokes are really, really happy when they have their wife sailing with them.

    Actually I think my handy hints are pretty good – good clothes, good bogs, good showers, good food is what you need to focus on – creaming at six knots at 45 degrees should not be top of your list of priorities because it is unlikely to be top of hers.

  13. 21 February, 2015 at 6:08 pmdylan winter says:

    well done on building a massive boat. I have built small ones but you are a man who is not afraid of a challenge

    you obviously did well to nurture a successful sailing partner

    – however, this is the question, would she have owned and run a yacht off her own bat?

    Dylan

  14. 21 February, 2015 at 8:07 pmWill Frye says:

    What I don’t understand is why you are taking the heat rather than Prof Windjammer.

    Someone seems to always be standing in the margins with arms akimbo, tapping a foot and wagging their head, and being offended about something. You can’t please ’em or fix ’em, so why not just laugh at ’em. I think the letters give meat to your article.

    These ladies obviously lack the ability to laugh at themselves and at life, traits you have in spades, as do many of us MOBs who follow your exploits, which makes your presentations so well received.

    Keep sailing.

  15. 21 February, 2015 at 11:05 pmdylan winter says:

    I agree

    this is nothing to do with me

    the romans and greeks were very keen on slaying messengers

  16. 22 February, 2015 at 8:44 pmDave Barker says:

    I guess not. Before she met me (we were both in our mid-forties) she had never been sailing. I know traditional role models are frowned upon nowadays but she turned out to be invaluable in the galley, turning out terrific meals in a rough sea while I hogged the helm to avoid getting sea-sick. We lived on the boat for nearly four years by which time she’d had enough (deservedly so) so we sadly sold the boat and bought a house.

  17. 22 February, 2015 at 8:56 pmDave Barker says:

    Always remember that the people who write complaining letters to newspapers, magazines etc. are actually relatively few in number. There may be many people who agree with them but don’t take life so seriously as to be bothered to put pen to paper. And the internet makes it even easier to air one’s views. I can’t understand why seemingly intelligent people “twitter” for example. “Twitter” says it all as far as I’m concerned. And while we’re at it another thing that really annoys me………………..

  18. 22 February, 2015 at 10:06 pmdylan winter says:

    I have been a hack for many years

    everything I say is open to critique

    I have a policy

    This applies unless it is a small boat sailor aged 40 to 70 – then I listen very carefully to everything they have to say for they are wise men

    Dylan

  19. 23 February, 2015 at 9:05 amRivercruiser says:

    That picture is the very best illustration of a long held personal philosophy…

  20. 26 February, 2015 at 7:32 pmTiki Tyro says:

    The only issue of my sailing with my sailing partner who happily sails solo (in the Solent) is that ‘should’ I make perhaps a small technical mistake-ette (for example; running us up the putty) I never hear the bloody end of it….
    Leave ’em at home I say….errrr …..I hope she doesn’t spot this

  21. 26 February, 2015 at 11:13 pmPenelope says:

    I am a MOG “Mostly Old Girl” !, and I enjoy watching KTL films , This year I am planing sailing solo around the UK, blowing part of my pension fund!. So you my come across a “OLD” solo woman sailor in your travels around Britain.

  22. 27 February, 2015 at 8:36 amdylan winter says:

    Lady Penelope

    well done that woman – send snaps of boat asap

    write a blog

    [email protected]

  23. 3 May, 2015 at 1:17 pmreynaldo says:

    My wife nearly closed down our small sailing club at Slaughden.
    Let me explain, this is an ex-beauty Queen we are dealing with, very powerful and glossy but useless in mud. Ferrari not Land Rover.
    We sailed a Wayfarer and she did not like wet feet spoiling her grip on life, so I launched with her aboard….
    This caused some merriment on the balcony for awhile, until gradually other wives insisted on the same …
    I have just noticed that I fall outside your web site age rating, upper end.
    Would you allow me to continue to watch accompanied by my deceased parents?
    Thanks for everything
    Chris

  24. 3 May, 2015 at 5:07 pmdylan winter says:

    excellent

    I love the idea of spouse being conveyed into the water

    Jill also has an aversion to getting her feat wet

    odd that I think

    D

Leave a Reply