Apropos of nothing 2

D
 

Fisher with a dead engine - £15,000

then the Tohatsu

plus two of these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BISON-ELECTRIC-OUTBOARD-TROLLING-PROPELLER/dp/B00BTFVQWQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1505473261&sr=8-3&keywords=trolling+motor

bank of lead acid batteries in the bottom of the engine compartment and then a modest diesel genset on top but still in the engine well - and vented to  the outside.

This is about Sailing around Britain.

19 Responses to “Apropos of nothing 2”

  1. 15 September, 2017 at 12:55 pmWouter van Wijngaarden says:

    Quite unconventional… My worries of this concept are more due to the water inflow to the prop. A Fisher 25 has quite a deep transom, especially in the middle…

  2. 15 September, 2017 at 2:39 pmTed B. (Charging Rhino) says:

    Trolling motors?? I wouldn’t bet my lee-shore survival on that combination…literally. That’s like powering the Passat Estate with a bedsheet held-out the sunroof on a broom-handle.

    The £18k Fisher 25 with the Beta sounds like a better deal. And there must be others…

  3. 15 September, 2017 at 5:12 pmdylan winter says:

    Just thinking laterally a bit. I am learning lots from this torqeedo. Most of the motoring would be done using two trolling motors – giving me about 4 hp of drive – quiet asnd economical. If I need to extend the range beyond the power of the batterie I have the Torqueedo which I know is 6hp deliverable. With all three going that is 10 hp.

    I, like you, worry about the lee shore scenario. The truth is though Ted – 50 years afloat and I have avoided the scenario so far.

    I think that you might also find yourself on a nice bem reach – 3 knots… Thinking a bit more speed might be nice, we have just 10 miles to go to the pontoon and lekkie. Why not just run one or two of the electric trolling motors to give another two knots of silent movement.

    Such thoughts keep me busy when rowing in the morning.

    D

  4. 15 September, 2017 at 8:24 pmTed B. (Charging Rhino) says:

    Have you been wearing your hat while rowing? LOL…

    “…At twelve noon the natives swoon, and
    no further work is done –
    But Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.”

    I can well see using the Torqueedo off the stern for discrete “silent running”, but personally I’d still like to know the thunka-thunka is down in the bilge in a pinch. And a small portable gen-set for mooring and battery-charging. I’ve heard good things about the Honda 1000 and Honda 2000 suitcase generators; quiet, efficient, and unobtrusive when on a mooring or a marina pontoon lacking shore-power.

  5. 15 September, 2017 at 8:40 pmRob Heath says:

    The trouble with charging the Torqeedo ‘off piste’ is it draws 4 or 5 amps at 12V for several hours if the battery has been significantly depleted, which amounts to quite a few A/Hrs if you only have a small service battery – still love ours though! The Honda gennys are great but you are back to carrying petrol onboard again; one of the main reasons for our buying the Torqeedo was to get rid of petrol!
    R

  6. 15 September, 2017 at 9:33 pmdylan winter says:

    I am thinking of a bank of old style lead acid car batteries in the bowells of a Fisher (dead engine removed). These would be kept topped up by solar panels and one wind generator – plus mains when available. The remaining space in the engine compartment would be taken by a small diesel generator

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bulldog-BDG3500E-Electric-start-Diesel-generator-With-next-day-delivery-1848-/301990799699?epid=1883211467&hash=item46500de953:g:59MAAOSwMzVTw62F

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silent-Diesel-Generator-Hyundai-DHY6000SE-6-5kVa-5-2kW-Agriculture-Farming/292111311356?_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20151005190540%26meid%3De4d7b1e0f1a14ddc9bf3bbb0639951fe%26pid%3D100505%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226

    Most of the driving would be done by the electric trolling motors.

    I would have the Tohatsu available as well for when against the odds

    or…..

    I could spend £25K on one with a good engine

  7. 15 September, 2017 at 9:51 pmdylan winter says:

    the frosts are coming – cold in the mornings – hence the hat

  8. 16 September, 2017 at 8:55 amStephen Mundane says:

    https://youtu.be/6ul-cZyuYq4?t=33

    I can see this working, backed up with a generator/solar panels and a bank of decent batteries (I wouldn’t scrimp on the batteries). My only concern would be that to make any decent headway upwind in a big blunt boat like a Fisher, you would need to run the engine. I’ve read that some owners spend as much as 50% of their time with the donkey on…

    That being said, the electric set-up you propose will weigh also more than a 25-30hp marine diesel: around 140kg for a Beta 30 vs. 225 kg for the electric system comprising the Bulldog generator, 4 batteries, two trolling motors and a big 300w PV panel . You would save weight on carrying less fuel though and could strip out the original prop-shaft etc.

    It certainly worked here on a smaller scale (from the many positive amazon reviews):

    “I recently built a small trimaran. Initially I powered it with a 4hp outboard motor but then I decided to go mad: I added solar panels, batteries and charge controllers and see if I could make it work. I ended up with 225Ah of battery power and bought a Bison 62ft/lb motor to see how it would run…Yesterday I gave it a proper test. I went out into the sea off the Western Donegal coast. The tide was running quick enough and there was an offshore wind of 20kmh. I loaded up the Trimaran with my wife, myself and our five young kids and off we went. When we got out of the harbour there was a fair old chop. The engine coped beautifully…On speed 5 the batteries lose about 30% of their power after about an hour on speed 4 its more like 10% in bright sunshine I reckon I could cruise on speed 4 and use no battery!”

    Importantly, he indicates that he can run on PV power alone in bright sunshine. Great for the Med, but perhaps not much use on the West/Wet coast of Scotland. But with a generator, you might not have to worry?

    As you intimate, this unconventional set-up is certainly cheaper than buying and fitting a new diesel engine, even if you buy decent charge controllers, PV panels and, importantly, batteries. I’d say £2000 would buy you four decent batteries, two trolling motors, a diesel generator and 300W of PV panel with charge controller and connectors. Certainly better than £8,000 plus for a new Beta 30 plus all the bits and pieces, not including labour to fit it!

    Talking of batteries, two of these connected in series for each engine would do the trick:

    http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/t-105-trojan-deep-cycle-battery/?gclid=CjwKCAjwl_PNBRBcEiwA4pplRRGZ0cgevtKIbBEjWAyPgXy6B1LPLJphTc8xqaay8Z_ls4dA9Dx6zBoCqMEQAvD_BwE

    I’d say go for it but then it’s not my money!

  9. 16 September, 2017 at 9:18 amdylan winter says:

    Having done two winters and three summers in scotland I am now getting the hang of the sailing conditions. I agree punching into an oncoming tide against the wind would be impossible. However, I always do my best to avoid such a scenario and would go another direction – or wait for the tide to change.

    I have tended to leave the boat for a week – and coming back to filled batteries would be good.

    I think that I would make faster passage times – If I knew I had 40 miles to do, the batteries were full and the wind was blowing then I would be quite happy to fire up one or two of the high thrust 24 volt motors and leave them quiety running to give me an extra couple of knots.

    Ted’s lee shore scenario is the frightener – but then as I have never been in that position in over 50 years on the water there is a good chance that it won’t happen in the remaining 15.

    I am hoping that I will be in a position to just cough up for the Fisher with a good engine….

    but just making plans here.

    D

  10. 16 September, 2017 at 9:37 amStephen Mundane says:

    Plans are always good D. Hope you get that Fisher.

  11. 16 September, 2017 at 5:44 pmGary says:

    There’s a Fisher 25 on ebay at the moment, a tad over 13k with a yanmar 20hp diesel
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fisher-25-Freeward-motor-sailer/253149745753?hash=item3af0e69259%3Ag%3AIEEAAOSwrhBZCwB5

  12. 16 September, 2017 at 7:41 pmTed B. (Charging Rhino) says:

    Either-way, the overall idea of switching to a pilothouse should give you a lot more flexibility — especially in Scottish waters and even the Irish sea. Instead of being cowed in harbor waiting for a weather-window for a purely transit-run to shift locales, a forecast of rain for a day or two can be profitably-used to make a transit-run to the next harbor while warm and dry (mostly). Saving the nice(r)* weather for filming and exploring.

    And I’m still haunted by your crossing of the Pentland Firth in a open cockpit.

    ( * – It’s still Scottish weather. )

  13. 16 September, 2017 at 8:01 pmdylan winter says:

    wrong fisher – that is a freeward – no shelter for helmsman

    D

  14. 19 September, 2017 at 3:11 pmChristoph says:

    Hi Dylan

    To buy an old Fisher with a lot of work seems a nice idea, but you want to sail and not to built on a boat.
    And to have a closed wheelhouse means it is still cold and you Need a heating System.
    Nice Fisher 25 ketch with Reflex heating. http://www.yachtbroker.dk/baad/fisher-25-ms-ketch/3021
    Reflex oven do not Need electricity.

    Best regards

    Chris

  15. 19 September, 2017 at 3:17 pmdylan winter says:

    I agree….that looks great.

    A high price too. I really want a boat that I can sail straight away…. and I do not want to lose another summer – certainly not to fettling, but by Christmas I will know where I stand regarding the next phase of the journey. There are a lot of people out there competing for sailor’s eye time. Most offer a bit of an eyeful but there will be a shake-out in the wake of Irma. I assume that insurance costs for the Carribbean run will start to rack up.

    As for the KTL cash flow… considering electric power might be one way of getting a Fisher up a loch in Scotland. You started all this though Chris by sending me the Torqeedo

    D

  16. 19 September, 2017 at 9:24 pmTed B. (Charging Rhino) says:

    If you hit the lottery;
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLCgVFu4L3Y

    I’ve been looking at some vids for European ‘deck saloon’ sailboats. We don’t really have them here in the US much. I’ve never heard of this mfr. before I ran across their vids, but I’m impressed by their space efficiency for the boat-length. The 31-ft has tiller steering and optional twin keels…and doesn’t look like a small fishing trawler but has the visibility. The “secret” workshop/storage area and center cabin is a clever idea.

    Available single keel, twin keels and a retractable centerboard for mud-landings….even on the 40-ft model. Impressive, they’ve almost extinct here on the US East Coast.

  17. 20 September, 2017 at 8:53 pmBryanD says:

    She’s more pleasing to the eye than the full bridge version – but hey ho good looks don’t keep you dry and warm

  18. 20 September, 2017 at 8:55 pmdylan winter says:

    I agree – they do look good. But after three summers and two winters in Scotland I know that I and the gear need inside steering. I used to race keel boats so I know how a good yacht should sail and feel… but I am 62 now…. Jill is even older.

  19. 20 September, 2017 at 9:39 pmBryanD says:

    Not cheap but ticks most boxes – I’m going to buy a Euro lottery ticket for Friday just so that my winnings are in Euros and I can buy one without paying the exchange rate

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