Chris makes some interesting points

Hi Dylan,
I recently came across your video’s and I have enjoyed them tremendously (Scotland). I haven’t got to the others, but I can only imagine they are done just as well. I will be honest, I’m finding your argument of making films and the lack of support (monetary) rather head scratching. I didn’t know the idea of putting out video’s on youtube was strictly a business. I alway’s thought youtube was a way to post your/posters experiences and share them with the rest of the world (a choice). I understand some make money and some don’t. Is that the point, to make money and have your dreams and aspirations financed by youtube? There are ways to make films and generate money if that’s what you want to do. Heck, I’d wish everyone would chip in and finance my dreams and ambitions as well. I noticed you talk about ‘freeloaders” not contributing to your video’s and financing your adventures. Do you contribute to all the subscriptions that you belong to? I noticed a few bikini sailing websites that you seem to condone, you have a subscription to. Hey, your entitled to subscribe to anything you wish, I’m not here to tell you otherwise. I was just thinking what if you deleted a majority of those sites and put that cash back into your pocket (assuming you donate to their content as well) you might have a little more to put back into your budget. I know it sounds like I’m coming down on you but i’m not. You can make your own decisions on what you want to do with your site, and say anything you wish.You are more than entitled to do that (that is your right and you have the freedoms to do that). I’m just trying to understand your rational. I don’t have a youtube account. But, if I did, I’d make video’s because I wanted to, not because I expected anything in return from them. Maybe that’s what separates me from you and the many of youtubers that are money motivated for financial gain. If you aren’t making $$ doing this than don’t put any more resources into it. I take it you enjoy doing what you do (it shows), you seem to be just disappointed by the lack of $$ heading your way. Heck, isn’t sailing enough and experiencing your own adventures satisfying? Don’t make video’s because you have to, make them because you want to. Seems like you are generating a little bit of money for the cause while doing what you love. Can’t be all that bad. But, if you are losing more money than you are putting into it, or are not making enough profit to meet your “obligations”, maybe your in the wrong business. I wish you all the best. I hope you find your next boat, and I hope you continue to grow your audience and website. I think you’re a pretty lucky man.

This is about Dylan Winter's Blog, Sailing around Britain.

26 Responses to “Chris makes some interesting points”

  1. 28 April, 2017 at 6:55 pmRusty Knorr says:

    So well said, and I couldn’t agree more. I have been wanting to say the same thing, but hesitated because you were so kind with your comments on my Duckpunt building blog. (Which you read for free, by the way.)
    The whole point of YouTube was a format for amateur video makers to have a place to post and for people to share with each other. I’ve posted dozens of videos on there and never expected to make a penny on them, they were documents of fun experiences I had that I wanted to share with whoever wanted to see them. Of course YouTube has changed dramatically into a revenue source for a lot of people who have successfully figured out how to monetize their content. Calling your subscribers derogatory terms is no way to generate loyalty and certainly no way to browbeat people into providing you with an income so you can have grand adventures. I loved what your channel started out as, and hated what it became. Now it seems to be just bitter diatribes and condescension, while trying to embarrass people into funding something that by all rights is posted on a free format. I’ve essentially stopped watching, not because I’ve been called a “freeloader” one too many times (I have), but because the content is just not as interesting or compelling as it used to be. No one is under any obligation to make YouTube videos or watch them. It’s a free market out there, people have literally millions of channels to watch for free, and if you aren’t competing with them then I agree with the post above, stop trying to do it for money and do it because you love what you do and want to share it with the world. And if you can’t afford to do that, well that’s just too bad. There are a lot of things I wish I could afford to do and have other people pay for but that’s probably not going to happen. So I can do the things I can afford to do and enjoy them for what they are, and maybe film a little of it and put it out there for the world to see. If it makes people happy that’s all the reward and compensation I need. Disparaging other people’s success because they are smart, beautiful, and making a living producing product that people enjoy watching and as a result pay for is bitter and petty. You should be happy there are sailers out there showing people the beautiful world on a beautiful boat instead of trying to tear them down because you haven’t had the same success. Go back to the source and spirit of what you originally started, do it for the joy of doing it, film it if you enjoy that, share it if you want to, and be happy if anyone watches it out of the millions of other things competing for their attention.

  2. 28 April, 2017 at 7:28 pmDavid says:

    Dylan, While I don’t fully agree with the previous comments, and can understand why you are trying to generate revenue to fund/part fund the project via Youtube I do have some sympathy with their points. Youtube is a ‘free to view platform’ and is funded mainly by pay per click adverts. Realistically I will be very surprised if Youtube will ever work for you. I know you have had a good experience in the past with your other subjects, as well as very bad ones following being banned from getting Adsence revenue, but Youtube is not in my opinion where you can possibly succeed. You would need tens of thousands of people watching the films, all prepared to voluntarily chip in on every film. Suggestion:- you must have a good database of MOBs now and they are going to be a ready market for . I know that DVD sales are a thing of the past but why not try a subscription model on your own website. You may not be able to ‘stream’ videos from it but users could download the ‘premium’ videos in HD from a password protected member site. You could continue to post to Youtube ‘taster videos’ and blogs to get people interested without too much problem, as well as hosting older content there for freemans. Server space is cheap now even for large files if you know where to look. Are you still in touch with the person that helped you set up the site originally? If not reach out and I will try and help if I can.

  3. 28 April, 2017 at 9:08 pmZozza says:

    Everyone has the right to an opinion. However, I mostly disagree with the initial emailer, and the first two responses.

    Firstly though, Dylan must be commended in allowing some pretty harsh criticism to be published out in the open for all to read. Personally, I hate criticism of myself by others, whether I feel they are right or wrong. However, even someone talking crap about you can provoke useful thought, as long as it doesn’t get personal and you start making ad hominem attacks on someone – which despite the criticism, I don’t thing the first emailer and responders do. So all ok on that front.

    The thing for me is, this is all about choice. Dylan can do whatever the heck he wants to do. He can buy boats, sell boats, have a website, make videos, not make videos, sell his house and leave his wife and buy a Halberg Rassy 45 footer and berth next to the toffs at the Royal so and so Yacht Club complete with burgee flying with a gin and tonic in his hand while he tut tuts the riff raff in their bilge keelers drifting by. (Noooo Dylan, don’t leave the missus and sell the house on account of us MOB’s.)

    He can also ask for a few quid if he wants. If you feel its badgering, and you don’t like, then don’t pay him. It’s your choice.
    Over the years I have probably flicked Dylan 40 quid. Not a lot. But I can honestly saying if he didn’t ask what I felt were “gentle proddings” to send him a bit of loose change, then I probably would not have.
    It’s no big deal.
    Just relax fellas. Send a few quid, or don’t send. Again – it’s your choice.

    For me, I think the people that send the bikini video sailor’s any money are quantifiable nut-jobs. However, their choice. But when you look at today’s society when the size of the Kardashian girls arse gets more ‘clicks’ on the web than the news of possible nuclear war with one of Iran, North Korea, or Russia….I mean really – is it in anyway surprising that the tit and bum sailing crowd are raking it in and getting loaned million dollar Cats?

    Anyway, just my opinion, nothing more nothing less.

    Sail on.

  4. 28 April, 2017 at 9:31 pmKeith says:

    Don’t think it’s about what YouTube is or what it should be or what it isn’t.
    More that it is a platform to make what one will of it.

    Many are making money with it. Many more are not. Seeking restitution by appealing to my sense of fair play and for the value I perceive Dylan provides me (us) is a means he employs to his benefit. As for me and my house, we’ll continue to pay Dylan in the way we see fit – thank you very much.

    SMFL
    Keith

  5. 28 April, 2017 at 9:58 pmDavid says:

    Sadly it’s not just about what Youtube is or is not. Dylan is of course more than entitled to ask for a few quid for his superb films on Youtube. My concern is that this in not the best way to convert all this hard work into cash to enable him to continue the journey. Dylan will be the first to tell you that Youtube is all about numbers – not just views – there are very sophisticated algorithms at work. Personally I don’t think that even with all us MOB’s this is a medium he can use successfully. A few hundred or even thousand are insignificant where it comes to Youtube.

  6. 28 April, 2017 at 10:29 pmBryan T , yacht Difran 2 says:

    Dylan,
    The above comments are I hope food for thought, Sailing is an expensive game. I joined your merry band of MOB,s and enjoyed the DVD’s only to be disapointed at their demise.
    I do not have a 50inch TV and all the gubbins to link computer to screen.
    I am willing to pay the working man worthy of his hire so send some funding.
    To be able to fund you films in a way suggested is in my opinion impossible.Drummond Challis who said that Riddle of the Sands was touch and go financialy. You Tube is a venture tickle the trout’s belly see what may turn up.
    A number of friends have tried the Sailing school venture I can tell you this is fraught with danger, Inexperienced Crew failure and vessel damage. I organised venture trips when in the RAF but service funding is now a no go keil yacht club have pulled back to the UK. I go with some You tube to make it look interesting pay a fee or by a DVD or some other personnel film record. Another film maker I am currently following is Aaved Fuchs on Dagmar Aaen or Bob Shepton who is following Bill Tilmans Climbing adventures. My crew mate sails on a Large ketch and pays a fee up front I have sailed with the Tall ships youth Trust
    I must ask is it your aim to make a good film or cover the cost or make a living?
    Do not say I know. I have been on the water like you since the 1950’s my Father and Grandfather before me Maybe we are sevants to the men in top hats.
    But what and Exciting adventure we portray.
    If you wish to get rich go into Banking or By a red light and recruit a few girls

    But Dylan your work is great Please find a Way to make it work for you.

    Bryan T.

    I spoke once with the film maker

  7. 29 April, 2017 at 1:24 amDavid C says:

    The original emailer (and his supporters) have no idea how much equipment and time someone like Dylan puts into his films. They also do not understand the new paradigm of video. It’s no longer “pay a fee and get your cable channels” world. There is Hulu and Netflix both creating original content — which you pay for by your monthly subscription fee. How is this any different from what Dylan is doing? He is providing a service for which he hopes to get paid — not what he would be paid with a wider distribution network, but he chooses to distribute via YouTube. He provides his videos for free to anyone (awfully nice of him, that), but those who see value and have the desire to pay for the content can.

    Why is it aways people involved in an artistic endeavor who are expected to offer their service because they “love it?” If someone liked being an electrician or a bricklayer, would you expect them to perform those services for free? Artists deserve to be paid for their work, just like any else. Dylan is a video artist. He deserves to be compensated for his offerings. Just because he is generous does not mean he does not deserve payment.

  8. 29 April, 2017 at 10:06 amAndy Yates says:

    I think KTL is different from your average Blog. Dylan shoots a lot of video and along with the editing must take up a lot of his time, so asking for a few bob is fine by me. I’m a self employed electrician and I am always asked to do “favours” for family & friends and sometimes their friends. These all take time “my time” and time is money these days so everyone pays me in some fashion, be it a returned favour, a few beers or good old cash.I stopped feeling awkward about asking for payment years ago and I don’t think the people I do the work for expect me to do it for nothing either.

  9. 29 April, 2017 at 10:20 amAdam says:

    Dylan, I like meny others have enjoyed your videos and have made some PayPal taps along the way. However the tone it has taken lately, for me is uncomfortable. It has a hint of black mail about it, sorry if that seems like strong words. If you are truly unhappy that people are viewing without “paying there way” then don’t post the videos on and open platform like YouTube. However I know you are a smart man and it’s my guess you know exactly what you are doing. But is this really the way to go about it? To me it gives the impression of a bitter, angry man. Somehow I don’t really think that is the truth. To me it’s sad.

  10. 29 April, 2017 at 10:35 amdylan winter says:

    thanks for your input chaps…. I will let this run for a while and then think it through while sailing up and down the Deben.

    As my old geography teacher used to say when handing out a roneo-ed sheet that smelled of meths…..

    “I expect you to read, learn and inwardly digest” – so I will do just that

    ever so umble Dylan

    PS – editing Eribol to Handa and the summer Isles

  11. 30 April, 2017 at 12:30 amClive says:

    Looking forward to the new film Dylan

  12. 30 April, 2017 at 4:44 pmAndy Davis says:

    Since we’re all chipping in our 2p worth – is it really true that the DVD is dead as a format? For what it’s worth, I download all you stuff, and the films I like I then painstakingly burn to DVD so that I can watch them on the telly. If you properly mastered the more recent series to DVD I would buy them ‘cos I am lazy. You should give people a choice of delivery mechanism. Just saying.

    • 30 April, 2017 at 6:16 pmdylan winter says:

      A,

      sadly they died at the end of 2014. As the man from sony said….”DVD sales appear to have fallen off a cliff.”

      The christmas rush just failed to materialise. The only DVD drives I have now are on the laptop and thee PC – and they hardly ever get used. Properly mastering would take about three or four days. I also no longer own the music used in the films so the law allows me to use music for youtube and vimeo but not DVD.

      Things are moving so fast now it is incredible.

      4K looms

      D

  13. 1 May, 2017 at 2:34 amRusty Knorr says:

    I wanted to for a moment clarify something. I am in no way suggesting that what Dylan does or has done is not valuable or worth paying for. His films are beautiful, well produced, and show us a side of the British waterways we likely would never see any other way. He is an artist (grammar notwithstanding) and that is undisputed. And also as an artist (I’ve been a professional musician most of my life) I understand the desire to get payed for the art you produce in a world determined to get it for free. And yes, being an artist can be very expensive, whether it’s camera and video equipment or musical instruments and recording studio time. But here’s the thing…I’m not releasing albums on a free format like YouTube and then being angry and frustrated because no one gives me any money for my music. You don’t write a book and put it out on the street corner in a box and say “Here’s the book I just wrote, take a copy and read it, but pay me for it or you’re a wanker” and then be pissed because you look the next day and they’re all gone with $5.00 left in the box. It’s ridiculous to expect people to pay for something they are used to getting for free, namely entertainment via YouTube. As I said, you are competing with literally millions of other videos put up for free to enjoy on a format designed to make money for YOUTUBE, not the content provider. If you want to get payed for the art you produce, you need to go where people spend money for that art form and are happy to pay for it. For me I perform concerts and sell music directly to fans. For a lot of sailors they sell articles or books. A lot of them travel to boat shows all over the world selling their products to fund the next voyage. Some get endorsements. People work incredibly hard to make a living as sailors. It sounds like all you have done is put up the videos you have made (and I know producing them takes work) and then sit back and hope for the best and be bitter when you don’t get what you think you deserve or what you think your work is worth. As a result either your content is not good enough (there is a ton of good sailing content out there) or you’re not getting it in front of the right audience in the right way. Commercial art, meaning art for money, is fiercely competitive. You have to either have something totally original and utterly compelling, or you will not compete in a market flooded with excellent quality entertainment. I learned a long time ago that I was not good enough to get rich or famous playing music, so now I do it because I enjoy it and hope that others enjoy what I do as well. If you can’t make enough money to justify doing it, you can either stop, or do it for your own enjoyment. Or say fuck it and just go sailing and don’t worry about filming! People spend too much time looking through a camera or phone as it is and miss the world they are moving through. Maybe this whole conversation is just a way of the world reminding you to see it for yourself and forget the camera. If others want to see what you see maybe they should get off their asses and go sailing too!!!

    • 1 May, 2017 at 12:57 pmClive says:

      Forgive me but don’t you think this is getting out of hand, you made your points earlier, some will agree some will not, most I guess will not give a damn what you think however I guess I won’t be the only one who thinks you’re latest posting strays into being offensive

    • 2 May, 2017 at 1:54 amDavid C says:

      “angry and frustrated”
      “pissed”
      “bitter”

      I don’t see Dylan as any of these things. In fact, part of his appeal is that he one of the most happy, satisfied, and grateful people I have ever seen.

  14. 1 May, 2017 at 4:56 pmjack says:

    I’ve reluctantly be drawn into this somewhat ridiculous ‘argument ‘. There are some who think that Dylan can’t move on from or shouldn’t, year 2008 , youtube was then 3 yrs old. After 1.6 million views and 9 yrs later to the DAY! I find those stuck in the past laughable. Dylan makes bloody fantastic films because he is a really good bloke that connects with mainly other really good blokes. The rest of you are narrow minded and can only think of your narrow world….. sorry but it’s true, get over it.
    I for one would want Dylan on my boat in a crisis rather than of you lot.
    If Dylan after all this time wants help to continue his documentation on the UK coastline and providing us a entertainment as well, and after 8 yrs is saying ” hey, can you help me out” who the ‘ frig’ are you to be critical his motives. He has his own style and that seems to offend some, boo hoo! Get over it or f×÷k of you piss me off.
    So to you armchair admirals, go watch something else for free and move out of your mom’s basement.

    .

  15. 1 May, 2017 at 4:56 pmjack says:

    Rant over……

  16. 1 May, 2017 at 6:39 pmSue Johnson says:

    I don’t look at the site often & in spite of knowing Dylan for the last 14 years or so I don’t watch the films (sorry D), but I occasionally read the comments on the videos if I have a spare moment & this is such a moment!
    I have to say that this thread seems to be getting a bit personal & unpleasant on both “sides” of the discussion.
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but do remember that Dylan didn’t have to leave the original post up in two places. It has stimulated varied comments, but also seems to have given the opportunity for some people to be unnecessarily abusive & negative.
    From reading the comments on Dylan’s posts over the course of the project I sense that the blog & You Tube films are enjoyed by a lot of people, many of whom are happy to give some funds to help the journey continue. I suspect many who watch may not have the time, opportunity, skill set or live too far from the areas shown in the films to do the sailing themselves as one post above suggested in rather inelegant terms.
    The solution is simple – if you’re one of the people who object to Dylan asking for funds, watch something else, but please DO stop being abusive / offensive, it’s simply not necessary & adds nothing positive at all.

  17. 2 May, 2017 at 4:52 amWarren says:

    KTL continues to be on the first place on my favorite web sites.
    The whole sailing channels explosion on you tubes is a new fad and I have found some amazing people recently on these channels and my life is richer because of them. But only a few get my dollars and I am happy to help when I can..They are incredibly generous with their time for my enjoyment and education.
    But I would prefer to enjoy Dylan’s videos directly from the website and not have to go to you tube and deal with the ads , distractions and you tube trolls , his videos are very special to me.
    I would be delighted to have to pay a few dollars/pounds per vid to only see the next half a dozen videos via the website. Perhaps open to Up to YouTube after say 3 months ( they’re out of date anyway so does not matter when you tube gets them).
    Perhaps a model like that will satisfy both sides of the fence. Dunno
    Cheers Warren

  18. 2 May, 2017 at 5:06 pmDave Barker says:

    KTL is one of the first things I look at when I sit down to “play” on my computer. I have watched nearly all Dylan’s videos but I have only paid him about £10 a couple of times. I keep meaning to pay him more but haven’t got around to it yet. Do I feel guilty? No, of course not. As others have said, it’s my choice whether or not I pay the man and it’s his choice to put his videos on Youtube in an attempt to raise some money to enable him to do something he enjoys. He’s not a beggar in a London Underground station or a taxi driver who thinks it’s his right to be paid over and above a contracted price.
    If you paid Dylan £5 per video that would be extraordinary value for money in my opinion. All the man has done is ask. Where the bitterness etc. comes in I haven’t the faintest idea.
    The BBC keeps whacking adverts on the front of interesting news snippets and you can’t even turn the sound down on the video while the advert is running. They don’t ask you if you want to watch it.
    Another Youtube channel I watch is “Supercars of London” (yeah, I’m a sucker for fast machinery as well as drifting up swatchways etc). That guy has just bought a brand new Lamborghini – whether he payed for it with Youtube earnings I don’t know but he’s only 27! It’s all part of life’s rich tapestry, folks.
    Hope you keep it up Dylan, you’re worth the occasional donation even if some of us don’t get around to it.

  19. 3 May, 2017 at 11:01 pmBryanD says:

    I’ve never paid anyone for a film and always thought You tube was free viewing. I never watched video bloggs until my mate suggested Dylan as good inspiration. I watched and enjoyed and when Dylan asked for a little contribution, I thought….”Why not, he’s invited me along on his journey, I’ve accepted, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it and I don’t want him to moor up at the last port and go home on the train only because this trip in which 100’s of us are also on has become too expensive for one man to bear ”
    Sail on Dylan, do what you can and we will too.
    PS I still don’t pay anyone else….. only Dylan! He’s worth it.

  20. 4 May, 2017 at 10:47 pmJohn S. says:

    Please keep on keepin on Dylan, and I will keep on tappin every little while. Nuff said.

  21. 8 May, 2017 at 10:51 pmsimon leslie ellis says:

    The reasoning behind the ‘interesting points’ is quite tedious and boresome. A clear case of a killjoy trying to sound clever? If I was so concerned that Dylan’s banging his head against a brick wall I’d tell him in private not public. Commercial TV and the mailbox is full of people guilting us into donating money. You know what I mean: just £2 a month to set the world right. At least Dylan gives something up front. Come-on boys, stop trying to be clever and cut him some slack!

  22. 10 May, 2017 at 10:33 pmPhil says:

    What’s all this long-winded philosophy about? Blackmail??

    Do you walk up to street artists for having their hat out with this sort of sermon? Or, speaking of which, your local vicar?

    “You can play all you like, but don’t expect us to finance your lifestyle”?

    It’s probably all Thatcher’s fault

  23. 12 May, 2017 at 12:34 amAquaplane says:

    When I post a video to FB or youtube I do it to show off about my boat or where I am. I’m not a professional trying to make a living out of sailing. I sail for a hobby and wouldn’t want to do it to a schedule or to someone elses constraints.
    The OP doesn’t get it, this is Dylan’s income stream, if you like what you see and want it to continue pay, like you do for the BBC or Sky. If you don’t, bye bye and shut up.
    I never posted to youtube.

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